I'm thrilled to share the latest episode of Yes To Entrepreneurship where I broke down exactly why your business needs PR and how I did it for my thriving business, Who's That Housewife.

This is my favorite podcast interview I've done so far, because of the breadth and depth. It was an absolute blast to sit down and discuss with Ed the value PR adds and my journey to entrepreneurship — I hope you enjoy the episode.

Let’s go!

In Episode #047, we dived into the world of PR and what every business owner needs to know. Answering questions like What is PR? Does your business even need PR? How can you increase your exposure with a $0 budget?

Plus, I detail exactly how I created my hit board game, “Who’s That Housewife!?” with less than 10 followers on social media, no email list, no marketing budget, made a it profitable in 30 days and was picked up by major news sources like People and BuzzFeed.

Tune in to hear about:

• Why I started with PR when launching Who's That Housewife!? (3:22)
• What PR really is and means for your brand (6:39)
• Press releases, do you need them? (11:53)
• The HUGE advantage entrepreneuers have by doing their own PR (18:08) and how much it costs to hire a publicist or PR agency
• My favorite F-word in PR (35:59)
• The origin story of Who's That Housewife!? (43:38)
• How I approached influencers for unpaid, organic realtionships with a 100% success rate (46:34)
• Imposter syndrome in PR. Why if you have something valuable to share with the world get it out there because if you don't, no one's going to know about it (53:29)

[bctt tweet="You don't need to wait to do PR until you hit a certain number of sales or been around for X amount of time. If you have something valuable to share with the world, get it out there because if you don't, no one's going to know about it"]

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Click here to get the free Profitable PR guide I made just for Yes To Entrepreneurship Listeners.

You may also be interested in: My episode on The Spark Show here.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE:

Ed Troxell:

Welcome to the yes, entrepreneurship podcasts where you, the listener gets to eavesdrop in on the conversations I'm having with fellow entrepreneurs as we sit down for coffee each week, learn just what it takes to be a business owner, the ups, the downs and everything in between. And be sure to stay till the end to learn about the yes entrepreneurship network and how it can help you grow your business. Oh, here comes my guest. Talk to you soon.

Courtney Love Gavin:

So I have two businesses. I have tangible goods, e-commerce, who's that housewife, which is I launched almost a year ago. Being a tangible goods business, I, it took a lot longer. because my most recent my PR experience has been in entertainment and so it's like we can make anything in 24 hours. And when it comes to building a product, even one that everything for who's that housewife is made in the United States, it takes time, right? With manufacturing and also just trying to navigate supply chain management when you are an entrepreneur. Procurement takes a lot of time and making sure everything works. And so getting that out into now, everything is in a pretty manageable state in terms of having vendors being in various places online.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And so that business, knock on wood can sort of run it runs itself. Which led me to where I currently am which is helping entrepreneurs and creative small business owners figure out PR for themselves because I realized that as I dove into entrepreneurship full time and I was learning about email marketing and all these things that I sort of knew, right. Because being in PR, we have to be an expert at so many things within that realm and they worked hand in hand, but I wasn't the one actually doing the campaigns, right? I worked with people in SEO, but I was n't having to deep dive into what's the long tail keyword that we're using for this blog post or building websites and everything like that. And so as I dove in head first, I realized that no one was talking about PR and when it did get brought up with very, very highly esteemed, business coaches, marketing experts, et cetera.

Courtney Love Gavin:

It was always more of a footnote in that, Oh, that's really expensive. Or if you can get someone else to pay for it, like your book publisher, your brand partner, whoever or that's something that you just wait until either there's a crisis or you're an upper six figure company and instead we're going to talk about Facebook ads. At least that was my experience.

Ed Troxell:

Yeah, no, it sounds pretty accurate.

Courtney Love Gavin:

So, and, and that's so funny to me because PR was the only way I knew how to generate sales when I launched, Who's That Housewife!? Because I didn't, I didn't have an email list. I didn't have any money to put towards paid advertising, nor did I know how to really operate it. And the one time I did try paid advertising back in the day, I felt like I was just lighting money on fire and I didn't have the social following.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And even though my background is in PR, I didn't have any PR contacts in this area and I didn't have any experience as a game making tangible goods entrepreneur. I bootstrapped everything so it's not as though I could lean on my VC firm or investors.I knew firsthand how PR propelled my business forward and I just thought, well, when you're talking to entrepreneurs in whatever phase of their journey, Why wouldn't you have them do PR? Because it doesn't cost anything to do it. You really don't have anything to lose. In all my years, no one's ever written back, like in all caps. This is a horrible piece. Why would you ever send this to me? Right. and it's something that can really differentiate, yourself, because you can always be outspent, right?

Courtney Love Gavin:

Like your competitors, big, whoever they will always do that and now they say, I think it's like 33 touch points that a customer or a person really has to have with your brand before it starts to sink in or they really start to trust you. And with PR, it would at least cut down on the amount that you're spending on Facebook and other places. And with PR there's that built in trust and authority and credibility, sort of halo effect that you get from it. And unlike an ad campaign, it, it lives forever. Once it's out there, it, it, it doesn't, it doesn't go away. So good or bad.

Ed Troxell:

Yeah, exactly. And what with PR, like we hear that term thrown around so much. What, what really is PR in your opinion? You know, what, what you do. Because I think that that's something that also can be intimidating. A lot of entrepreneurs, especially those just starting out because they're like, I keep hearing this term and, and you know, I think a lot in business we're just expected to know how to do things and how to, you know, we're expected to know what a website is because everyone should have a website. We're expected to know how to use Facebook because it's free and everyone's on Facebook. But it's, it's not like that's knowing it and actually doing it are two different things. And so I feel like PR is one of those terms that people hear all the time, but they don't really know what that means. Like you said, it's a lot of people will think, Oh, I don't have the money for that. I don't have a budget for that because that's going to be too expensive.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yes. Yes, exactly. And I think that what's funny is that it's one of those terms that's used so much that nobody wants to actually admit that they don't know what it is. Right. Oh no. I mean, one thing that I always joke about is that not everyone can spell PR. Meaning that meaning that not everyone necessarily knows what it means or really understands it. And I think that's because PR does so many things. It doesn't just have one singular definition. Yeah. There's publicity, which I think is what most people's definition of PR is, which is press of some sort. But what it really goes back to is earning a relationship with an audience and how you communicate strategically to your target audience. And also adding new ones. So broadening the reach of your brand.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And that can be done through a lot of different ways that can be done through publicity, that can be done through speaking somewhere that can be done through association, like a partnership, a charitable giving, whatever, whatever that may be. And I think that looking at what PR isn't, PR isn't something that can be paid. It can't be bought and it is not a blatant sales pitch. And it's not, guaranteed. That's why it's earned media. I think that's why there's a little bit of probably resistance around marketing, especially for entrepreneurs because it's not something that you can just take a Facebook ads course and then call yourself one. There's nuances to it because you're working with people on the other end and you're also working with the news cycle.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And you could have something that's really compelling, but knowing how to position it, who to go to. There's just a lot of factors and it changes all the time. Public relations is something that everyone can benefit from. No matter what stage your business is in and that looking at it as a part of your overall marketing strategy, it doesn't need to be something that's totally siloed or this huge laborious endeavor. I mean, sure it can be a full time job, but I think that, like you said as an entrepreneur, we have so many things that we have to learn and that we have to do. And so really, it's about having it done at a level that is manageable for you.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And I'm sure a professional content manager could say I should be putting out five pieces of content on all the platforms that I'm on and that'd be great, but I can't do that right now. Yes, I can do something with PR and also tie it to what you're already doing. For example if you have your blog posts planned out, then tie them to what your PR pitches are covering. I think that especially as entrepreneurs, we're all pretty savvy and we know a lot more than we think we do.

Ed Troxell:

We know how we are with tech. Like you know, everyone, you know, we have those challenges with that. I mean, even me being a techie, there's those things that come up and it's like, Oh, I forgot. I still can run into errors and run into challenges myself. And it's like, I think that technology gets in the way a lot of the times as it's such a blessing to have and there's so many great opportunities that it brings us. But at the end of the day, it still comes back to us coming up with that great idea and actually working through it with pen and paper because that's what we know and that's, that's the least techie. And then we can get into the tech part. But what happens these days is at least that I see with my clients is that a lot of people just jumped out from idea to tech and then they get held up so they don't have that natural flow. And they're trying to figure out this complicated tech piece that they don't need to figure out. Because if they figured out the actual framework that they're trying to produce, then they can invest in actually having someone quickly, easily and affordably implement through the tech partner.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yes, yes.100%. I think that a lot of the time people will think, okay, how am I gonna pitch this person or how am I going to reach this person or do I need to have a special splash page or track my URL, do I need a press releases. I get asked all the time. I would say especially for someone who is just starting out and really want to like put their toes in the water, you don't need to worry about a press release. I mean, for the most part they're pretty antiquated and unless you're a publicly traded company and that's a necessary type thing for shareholders. But as far as if you really want to get your story out there and your brand out there, like a press release is not the way it's a container. It's like on the tech side, it's a container

Ed Troxell:

As far as it asks if that's still relevant. Cause that, that to me from back in the day I thought PR was press release. Like that's all you had to worry about was creating this press release. And you know, with everything has changed since then. It's like, is that even still relevant? Especially for, you know, the creative entrepreneur realm, you know, the coaches and the consultants and all of that. Yeah, no, no.

Courtney Love Gavin:

I mean, so I'll, I'll start by saying that it's not, that is not how you need to put out your news or put out your information. Today journalists, producers speaking bookers, podcast hosts, whoever they are for the most part, they're overworked and underpaid. And so think about how can you make their lives easier! A huge way to do that is to get to the point and to really direct with what it is that you are offering them. And a press release is not the way to do that. I always say you don't want to give them the whole tree. You want to give them like an acorn, when you're, when you're reaching out. Yes, hyperlink, do things to give them enough information so that they can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to move forward.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Pitching in PR isn't an email sequence where you just do a cliff hanger. Side note, I think that's why for me writing emails and other materials in marketing speak has taken me longer than most. I think it's been more of a learning curve because in PR it's really being direct and still making it interesting. Telling things that hold weight and make an impact and not a bunch of fluff. And so when you're pitching someone or really doing any sort of PR messaging, you want to do that. And a lot of the times press releases are more like Madlibs in terms of there's a headline and sub headline, Marketing jargon like "this leading company has introduced the most innovative." That's it does feel so stale.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And even if you want to try and be creative and do a press release in emojis, I think it was an auto company to that a number of years ago or GIFs or something like that. You can but that is not the way as far as if you're going to do outreach, please don't do a press release. I will say the time that it can be useful to you is more of the knowledge of knowing how to do one is when you are working with a bigger brand. An example of that is that I have a client and he manages a lot of influencer talent. And one of his clients does a lot with a big retailer and has a show with them. It has to do a deals and things.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And the huge retailer, they're not, their PR team isn't going to go and do outreach about this talent, but the talent would like to get press. So the retailer said send us a press release to approve. Because that's the way that they work. And so I worked with this client of mine to help him craft a press release for his client so that he could then get the green light to do outreach for the talent.

Courtney Love Gavin:

The press release is just the container. It's the messaging. But it's never the first thing. Don't feel that you need a press release in order to go out there. It's a lot more important that you have a website of some sort. Something that shows that you exist. Have photos either of who you are as a coach, a consultant, an entrepreneur, or if you have a product photos of that. I joke that if you don't have video or photos and those are the types of opportunities that you are pursuing.

Courtney Love Gavin:

It's like a realtor trying to sell a house without me photos of it, right? Who's going to buy a house if you can't see it? And it's the same thing for when you're pursuing PR opportunities, especially if they are dynamic like an on-air interview, podcast, broadcast appearance etc.

Ed Troxell:

Yeah. And that's what I love about what you had said, how PR is about earning a relationship with your audience. Like, yes, it's so powerful and that's, it just makes me smile because that's what I'm all about. You know, you, you've probably seen online with Facebook lives and stuff that I've done and the show and everything. And it's like, it's one of those things that, that's what I love about being on social media and more specifically doing Facebook lives because you build that know, like trust factor so much quicker. Even if you can't be there in person and it just opens the doors to so many opportunities and you don't have to spend money on doing it like it, it literally is just your time. Okay.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yeah. Yeah. And it, and it, it, it like, it lives, right? Even when you're not doing it, it's still on your Facebook page or Instagram or your podcast here, it's still there and you're earning those relationships. And I think that for PR, that's a huge advantage that entrepreneurs have in doing their own PR outreach is that you are the one building those genuine long-term relationships with media outlets. If you're outsourcing it to someone else, when you stop paying them, then it goes away. It's like they're your broker, your dealer, I need to get my fix. And for the most part, journalists appreciate hearing directly from the business owners, the creatives, consultants directly anyways, it's less rigamorrol for them to cut through.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And you in the age of social media, what's great is that everybody has a platform and you no longer need that. My my person's going to talk to your person, et cetera. And I think that's part of the reason why for the PR industry, the media landscape has changed so much but the business model for PR hasn't changed. I worked at PR agencies for a long time and at one of my agencies, we didn't take on any clients that were less than $20,000 a month. And it's usually a minimum three month commitment. And even if you were to hire a publicist, I would say $5K a month is probably the minimum that you would be paying. And it was worth every penny.

Courtney Love Gavin:

I'm not at all, not at all knocking on what we do as PR professionals, but when you make your own money or it's your side hustle or whatever it is, I've, I personally feel, I don't know if you feel this way Ed, but it feels like it means so much more, more weight to it. Right? Like $100 that I could make from selling my handmade goods versus $100 that I might get previously in house, in my corporate job to go towards my phone bill. Right? That first hundred dollars feels like it's a lot, it's a lot meatier to me. And so when you have someone where they are generating their, their own income for their own efforts, they're not just being given a paycheck for showing up every day and you're asking them to invest money in something that they have no idea about.

Courtney Love Gavin:

They're going to be really hesitant. And it also makes it that then they're questioning you along the way. Like, well, why are you doing that? What are you doing this for? And things like that. And it makes it that no one is really doing PR as an entrepreneur. And PR agencies are getting clients that are a little bit undesirable because they just want to have a basic level of understanding. And then the businesses that could, could and do benefit most from PR because that's how you're able to get those customers and clients and partnerships, right? Like by having more people know about you and PR puts you in your brand on a bigger loudspeaker.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And it's crazy to me that there was this huge barrier to entry. And by leveling the playing field, by saying, yes, PR is a skill but it's something that you can learn! That then once you understand how to do PR you're going to be more likely to either say, Hey, I like this. I have the hang of it. OR say this is tough, but now I understand why pricing is the way that it is and I want to go and I want to find someone who can, help mentor me. Or that I can outsource my PR to.

Ed Troxell:

And that's what I think too. I was just literally having this conversation with somebody earlier today about how funny it is to me that marketing all, all things, marketing is usually the first thing on a business list to go in terms of departments and that literally I just found this fact, I have it over on my website. And I forget where it came from, but it said something like one in 10 small businesses don't spend any money on marketing. And I just like, it blows me away when I hear that because I'm like, but why? Like how are you doing this? Cause like you just built this business and, and you're, you're spending all this time and energy and money and yet you don't want to invest in marketing. Even if it's just a one time. Like, I just need a tuneup, you know, like going to the gym and you get a personal trainer for Virgin, where to set you up for the rest of the year. Like I, it just blows me away when people don't want to invest in that or when they get rid of that. And it's like, so now what are you gonna do? Because just posting for examples is this, obviously our life is social media. You know, just something and checking it off the list doesn't mean that it's effective and that it's working in your favor. It just means that you checked it off the list.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Oh no, 100%. And I think that no matter what level the business is at, they see marketing as something that, Oh, that's not necessary, but then they get rid of it and then they realize, I'm sure you have clients like this. I've had clients like this, but then a few months go by and they're like, Hey, I'm not getting as much traffic as I used to, or my conversion rate has really dropped. Or I'm not making what I used to, and it's like, yeah, cause you stopped. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head by saying checking something off a box because that is not the way that it works. I think that it's something where constantly, you need to tweak it, you need to see what's working and that you can try, different, different things.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And that, that stat is astounding because why wouldn't you want more people to be aware about what it is that you do? Even if I told you Ed, I have a wait list of five years clients that want to work with me. I am just at capacity. I'm maxed out. Well, I would still want marketing and PR because I need to hire people and that means that I want top candidates to apply to my company. And that's where marketing and PR, works in a different way. Maybe you're not trying to get customers, but you're trying to get candidates.

Ed Troxell:

It's, it's crazy. And I found a lot of these stats because recently I just, you know, I've, I've been doing different things within my business for online marketing and helping people. And I have now recently created what's called business on live and helping businesses actually leverage Facebook live to really increase their sales as well as like, you know, produce original content. And what's crazy to me is going through these statistics that I find, and it's like when you look at the numbers like that statistic and you look at other numbers around video and live video in our attention spans and everything, and it's like unbelievable that so many businesses haven't even embraced video. I'm not even talking about live video. I mean, that's a whole nother level, right? But, but not even video. And it's like when you look at the numbers though, when you do the research, you, you kinda almost have that. At least I do that moment where you're like, wow, I mean if I wasn't doing it of course because I'm all into the video stuff, but if I was a business owner and I wasn't doing the video, I look at this and I'm like, I would sit back in my chair and think, wow, we're really missing a huge opportunity here because there is a lot of, not just money, but opportunities on the table that we're not even scratching the surface for.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Amen. No, I 100% feel the same way. I feel like if you're not doing PR, you're leaving money on the table. Especially since it doesn't cost you anything to do it. Same with Facebook Live. It doesn't cost you. I mean, yes, the cost of your time but it's a great place to invest it. The ROI is huge and I think especially with video, live is the best place to start because one, people are a lot more forgiving because it's live and so it's okay if you mess up, they're not expecting you to go from the script. And the stats say people don't like the highly produced videos anyway. Feel confident in your delivery.If that means that you're wearing a certain shirt. Your audience wants to be able to hear you and see you.

Courtney Love Gavin:

But for the most part yeah. That can be leveraged in so many other places too. I'll take my Lives and then I'll have them transcribed on like Temi. And then from there I can have that in a blog post. And then send to my email list You can cut it for IG Stories. There's a great app that will take a video and it will segment it so it can work for Instagram stories. You could do much.

Ed Troxell:

No, no, you're good. I love, I'm smiling cause I love when people get into the tech and when they know what to do and just explore. So like everything you're saying, I'm just like, yes, yes. Cause this is, you know, this is what I'm teaching people who aren't at that level. And so when I hear other people talk about it, I'm like, yes, this is awesome. Like it's all about empowering you to be able to get seen, right. And go up and share what you have to offer. And you'll naturally attract the right people. It may take some time, but if you do it, consistency is key. Attract the right people and you will have loyal followers and loyal customers over time.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yes. Yes. There aren't a ton of people showing up to my Lives at all, but, and I know people that have thousands of followers on Facebook or Instagram and stuff and they're like, I'm lucky if I get 10. Right. But it's for after that, I think the other thing is you said about showing up and being consistent. Today most of us don't have brick and mortar locations or stores and some people are a little bit skeptical about the legitimacy of things on the Internet. Should I spend my money with this person,? With this brand? And so I think that by showing up consistently and like if you do a weekly show or whatever you're saying, Hey, you can count on me, I'm going to be here rain or shine this day, this time.

Courtney Love Gavin:

It helps breed confidence in your audience. And when you find someone you really like, you go back and it's the same thing that we do with Netflix, right? You go and you binge and you look at all those videos and you're also able to see the breadth and depth of content that they have out there. From a PR standpoint let's say you want to appear on your local broadcast news or something like that, a common question that's asked is just send us a link to when you've been live previously. And you can use your own stuff. A lot of the time actually, especially when it comes for those that are doing blogs or posts or whatever it may be, most editors, let's say you want to as an example, if you want to be a contributor to entrepreneur or inc. they want to see your writing samples, not if you've also contributed to Forbes or fast company or somewhere else because they know that there's been an editor that's helped make that copy perfect.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Right? They want to, you have the raw talent and so they ask, most of the time editors will say, can you actually send me some blog posts that you've written because they want to know is this person going to be a lot of work for them? And can they actually write. Even if you don't have a blog post up yet, I'm guessing if you're asking to contribute, you can, write. Put something in a Google doc and share it with them just so they can see that you can do it. And I think that it's the same thing when it comes to a live video because if you can be great live then that's an asset for you with PR.

Ed Troxell:

Oh yeah. And that's the crazy thing too. Like when you were saying that, I was just thinking it's so true if we think about it, if we shift the mindset and say okay, it doesn't have to be perfect. And that's good because like you were saying that that as the scouters can look at, do we have at least the foundation laid because at the end of the day, if we have the right skills, we can be molded into whatever needs to happen for whatever is, I mean, that's the thing, you know, like if you don't have, you know, street smarts, it's, it's really hard to like move on to something else, you know, because you don't have those, those skills that are, you know, like, Hey, that's probably not common sense. Like, you know, things like that. So yeah, no, that totally makes sense.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yeah, no, I think that having those raw skills is what's really important. And as you're coming up with content, let's say for your IG or FB Lives on a regular basis, I think that that goes back to storytelling, which is a huge thing in PR where I think that's a great skill for every business owner to really think about. How can I serve their readers or their listeners? Sort of what you do on your Lives I would imagine most people. If you're only doing self promotion that's an infomercial and you're not going to get that much engagement. But when you think about how can I be relevant or what is it that is happening right now? For example with new years, people do dry January or new year, new year fitness or things like that.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And so if you can, whatever it is that you do, if you can find some way to tie that into what you're doing, you're, you're going to appeal to people more and you're going to bring in more people than you normally would. And I think it's the same thing when it comes to PR where finding something timely that you can tie yourself to or why now or why should I care? And really developing that skill where you can leverage your experience and what it is you do in many different facets. And that can partially be because of timing and the time of year. And it also can be the audience that you're speaking with. We're all multifaceted people. If you're a parent for example, and you're trying to speak to that audience, you can really talk about being an entrepreneur while balancing fatherhood or motherhood or something like that. But if you're trying to talk about your technical expertise, you would probably be, I would hope leaning on a different, area of that. But PR is not this one size fits all. Check the box. Okay I talked to them about what I did, I'm done here.

Ed Troxell:

Exactly. Well and that's the thing too, I think I see this all the time with business and it goes back to what we were talking about with marketing is that so many people just expect it to be a one and done and that, Hey, I went live. Hey, I posted, Hey, I used Instagram stories for the first time I did my job. There's no sale. Like there's something wrong. I hate social there. I'm wasting my time. And it's like, it's not that easy sometimes. Then maybe that one in a million where you do get an instant sale and it feels so cause you're like, wow, that works. But it's not an everyday thing. And I think that's what people forget. Especially now with us being in such an instant gratification a world, it's like you have to put in the work and it returns over time and it's so hard for people to to see the bigger picture. I think.

Courtney Love Gavin:

I love that you said that Ed, because I think that one, the instant gratification is something that we....bc it's a marathon, not a sprint. Right? If you want your business to be around in the long run, it's going to take some time, to build that up. And that means that your tribe is going to be the right people. I joke that follow-up is my favorite F- word in PR because honestly the magic, the magic is in the follow up. I would say eight, at least 80% of PR wins that I've gotten my clients for myself, it's all from following up. Sometimes I'll even send a pitch the first time with re in the subject line so they already think that we're in conversation with each other.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And I think that it's we're so busy that a lot of the time this happens to me. I'll think that I responded to an email and it didn't send or I saw it and then I forgot about it. And it's not intentional. That one is me all the time. I think that I responded to someone and I'm wondering, Hey, why haven't I heard back? And then I realize it's bc I never responded to them.I think it also shows that the person is really interested if they're pursuing it. And I think especially from like a PR perspective, they're thinking, okay, this person is serious. They really do want to come on my podcast or speak at my event because they're, they're pursuing me and they're not just saying please see below and copying and pasting or using some techie machine, form to follow up.

Courtney Love Gavin:

It's not just checking the box. It does take time to to build that. But in the long run you need to give them value. And I think that when you're just starting off with PR, that's the first way I usually say to do it. Before you're approaching someone and asking for something, give them something ahead of time and not just give them your bio. Let them know that you are reading or listening to them beforehand. Comment on their blog or their article or just do a quick screenshot that you're listening or that you read it on one your stories or retweet,it something like that so that they're familiar with who you are and then it's showing versus telling.

Courtney Love Gavin:

But then when you approach them and say, Hey, I, I enjoyed this story on that, they know that you're not just blowing smoke but you actually are engaged, with them. Or it could be so simple as just replying to their email newsletter. Most of the time, there's a call to option in there.

Ed Troxell:

Yeah and nobody responds. So when you get the response, you're like, Oh, I'm going to dedicate all my time right now to this person.

Courtney Love Gavin:

I did that with Laura Belgray a couple months ago. She does the copy cure with a Marie Forleo and an awesome copywriter and hilarious. I highly recommend her. I replied to one of her emails. She has a huge email list. All of her articles are about how email is her business engine. And she gave up the client work because her email list allows her to have a very, very profitable business. And she responded to me on a weekend! She got back to me in less than 24 hours and she had gone on my website. She loves real Housewives and was talking about, who's that housewife and my other game. And so it was crazy to me that I'm like, she's THE email goddess and she she replied!

Ed Troxell:

Stands out, you know. And that's the beauty of it is that it, it, when you meet people, you have to meet them on different platforms. It's like go ahead and comment on their Facebook posts, but chances are if you're on Facebook, so as a billion other people, so go see if they're on Instagram or LinkedIn or Twitter and seeing where you can engage with them and multiple touch points like you mentioned earlier. Yeah, multiple locations so that they start seeing you pop up in different spots because there's always going to be that one platform that we tend to give more attention to as the receiver. Right. And so like in this case she gives her email lists the most attention, so that's why she responded to you. But if you would have posted a comment on Facebook, maybe you would've gotten a comment though, probably not. You know, so it's one of those things that you gotta find out where you can make the most use of your time and be able to reach those people.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yeah. And it really doesn't take a ton of time or effort. Even from an SEO perspective, you writing a comment on a popular blog that's going to help you, it's going to help you in the long run. Just make sure that what you're not saying I love you. You're my favorite, right. Because they see that and if you're saying that everywhere, it's not going to mean anything. It's a different way for you to show up. So even if that person doesn't respond someone in their audience could see a comment that you wrote and think, Oh, let me click on this person. I think that they're interesting.

Ed Troxell:

And that's what I loved about you saying the magic is in the follow-up because I always say the magic happens in the comments because I'm always on Facebook. So I love that you were like, Oh, the magic happens in the follow-up. That's like, yes. Wow. So awesome.

Courtney Love Gavin:

I'm honestly so pleasantly surprised a lot of the time. If I'm working on a PR campaign and I hear back from people on my first outreach because that isn't necessarily what I expect because it just takes a little bit more massaging and finesse sometimes. And so I think that just like you don't do an Instagram post and that's it. It's the same thing with PR. You don't just submit a form at a conference that you want to speak at and say, okay, I'm done. Or say PR doesn't work. It doesn't work for me. You have to be thoughtful about it. I also think that making sure that you're showing up in the right places is important. I always joke, it's the difference between throwing darts or throwing spaghetti up against a wall and seeing what sticks. It's the same thing with your audience and where it is you're going. And same thing with PR to think will this person be interested in what I have to say? Or how can I make this relate to that person. And it just goes back to, I think paying attention.

Ed Troxell:

Yes. 100%. It always comes back to asking and listening and the listening part is the key. And I want to ask you about going back to your the game because I'm curious, how did you come about that? And also what did you do to like actually market it? Like did it, did you just build it and then they all came?

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yes. I'm one of those 1% stories. All right. I am, I, yeah, I'm the unicorn that, no, no, not at all. I came about it as most people do when it comes to entrepreneurship. I was looking for something in the marketplace and it did not exist. So I made it. And at that point, yes, I was looking for a birthday gift or a girlfriend of 20 plus years and I couldn't find anything and I wanted something new. I already got her, the, the wine glasses. I already got her, the T shirt, the onesie for her daughter with afunny line from the show. And I couldn't find anything that really encapsulated the joy, that would allow us to celebrate this shared, pastime. I joke that we might not be in the same place in our lives physically or in our careers, but we're all in the same place when we're watching it. Instead of the big game for this. It's real Housewives.

Courtney Love Gavin:

So I made her a guess who game that I did by hand and taught myself Photoshop and all these things. And I wanted a side hustle because I was feeling a little bit unfulfilled in my corporate job and I wanted a creative outlet. And one of my friends said, well, like what about your game? Because I had had other friends ask me about it after seeing pictures. And at that point I was working probably 80 hour weeks and I thought, I'm not going to be home hot gluing stuff, right? That's not gonna work. And my friend said, no, no. You can actually do it at scale and find things. And so that was a year long process of figuring that out. And then I realized in the testing phase and instead of doing guess who in a one-to-one game, I made a game that is more like heads up, but the analog version or like the old game of celebrity.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And so you can have as it's a group thing, right. And, and easily pick up and play and then put it down, but more for bringing people together. And so I had everything together. I made my website on Shopify, got everything ready. And then I thought okay, well it exists on planet internet. What am I, what am I going to do?

Courtney Love Gavin:

And ads, I didn't have an email list. I had a Facebook and Instagram profile for the brand, but I didn't have any followers other than 10 people in my family who didn't watch real Housewives. So I started to, and I had done this before where I just started saving the names of journalists that either were tweeting about real Housewives or would write about them.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And I had it in this raggedy and Google sheet and added influencers to like FacesByBravo, Bravo Historian or other people like that. And I, I didn't have, my fancy PR tools to do this because it's something that anyone can do. And so then I thought I'm going to wait until I have the website with the product photography because I thought, okay, that way if they click on it, I want to be able to show them that it exists. And I needed to have the game ready to send them if they wanted it. And so I wrote personalized pitches to every single one. And I was cheeky because for this brand it's Housewives. So I said, are you ready for turtle time as the subject line, which if you watch real Housewives then you know it. I'm speaking into their language when I write which is super, super key.

Courtney Love Gavin:

And even when it comes to pitches, which is why I don't a lot of so-called PR experts, they give people template pitches or they say, here, buy my templates. And I'm someone where it is all about seeking into their language and it is about communicating with another person. And so the way that I write, like speaking to your voice and also it needs to be tailored. It's going to feel artificial if you're just using some template form so you can be really creative with it. And so I did that and I had awesome responses and, and the first article that actually went up was one on AOL and it was, it was one of those like dream articles that I always tell most of the time. It is very rarely that you are going to get an article that is 100% dedicated to you and your brand and that has exactly what you want in the headline. And I had that where he, he didn't even tell me the article was running, he said, yeah, I'm interested. Send me a game and I'll check it out. So I did. And then that weekend this article came out with the headline "The Real Housewives Game That Bravo Fans Have Been Dreaming of.

Ed Troxell:

That's a, that's a power I don't need, I don't even, I don't watch the show or anything, but that powerful, that is a powerful headline right there by itself.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yes it is. And AOL is tied to Bing plus their content is also published in other high-traffic places.

Ed Troxell:

Yeah. And the SEO and the SEO, it's like crazy.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yeah, no, it is. It is. And so that happened and then a lot of sales came through. Same thing on the influencer side. I approached influencers like I would an editor or producer where I said, Hey, I have the, I mean I've obviously changed the language and messaging and every, which was on one to one and said, would you be willing to give it a whirl? Like, do you want to check this out? Because ultimately, I didn't have money to pay them. And, you can't guarantee if they don't like it, it doesn't matter what they tell you they're going to do. Even if they write it in blood, if you send something and they don't feel it's not a fit for their audience, you're sort of SOL. So I did that and every single influencer that I sent it to posted about it. And if they didn't post about it right away, it was okay because I was very patient.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yeah. There was one time I sent a game to an influencer and it had been a bit, and they didn't post or tell me what they thought. So i sent them a cheerful note saying I really value your opinion and I noticed you ever posted is it because you don't, you don't like the game? And if that is the case, please tell me how I can make it better. Because feedback is so key. I think that's what's great is that even if you don't necessarily get the outcome that you're looking for, if they can tell you why you did it and what you can improve for next time, that's amazing. And that is priceless right there. I had articles continuing to come out and high profile publications and influencers post in their stories and then it I had media outlets actually reach out to me and say, Hey, we want to feature this.

Courtney Love Gavin:

E! News emailed me saying we're obsessed with your game, will you please send us, one. That is how I built who's a housewife and it was through something that anyone can do. Like we all, we can all read, right? We can all find an email and most of the time someone's email address isn't that difficult to find. Or like you said, there's different touch points. And even for me there was a freelancer and I couldn't find her email anywhere, but she was on Twitter. And I couldn't even DM her, so I just tagged her in a tweet. But it worked out and then we privated messaged and took it from tehre.

Ed Troxell:

Yeah. And I love how you broke that all down. Basically from what I hear, the journey there is that you had to put in the legwork up front, but then it got picked up and then it started coming back to you. Like people were coming to you, you haven't gone to them, which is what gets all about. Like we have to start somewhere because we have to be able to show up, present what we have and get people to at least hear us out. And then once one or two starts to pick it up, then it's like game over. Now we've got everyone else coming and we just don't keep, keep things moving.

Courtney Love Gavin:

Yes. I always joke that nobody wants to be the first one to get in the pool. And once you have those first few write about your business or have you as a guest, it's like get in, water's warm. And so I think that especially when it comes to PR, that's why start with local press, the SEO alone from PR wins is gold. There's no bad, media opportunities to point themselves to, and if you're not getting that from earned media, do it on your own at first. Go live on your own channels post your writing on your blog.

Courtney Love Gavin:

I remember. I was at my first retreat in may of 2019 and the speakers that were coming up to me that had multimillion dollar brands and they were asking me, who had just launched in March two months before. They were like, how are you a people editor's gift pick?

Courtney Love Gavin:

These brands companies were so much bigger than me. It's one of those things where there's imposter syndrome around PR. You don't need to wait until you hit a certain number of sales or that you have a certain number of customers or you've been around for X amount of time. If you have something valuable to share with the world or something different, get it out there because if you don't, no one's going to know about it. And most of the time the people that you are reading and hearing about, it's not because they have the best product or that they're the biggest business or the smartest person, it's just that they're doing it. They're putting themselves out there.

Ed Troxell:

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the yes to entrepreneurship podcast. Be sure to head over to yes to entrepreneurship.com for more episodes as well as information on how you can join the yest entrepreneurship network. The network brings together ambitious entrepreneurs, you the why nodders who want to grow their business online and master the basic principles of organic marketing so they can connect with their ideal audience, collaborate with fellow business owners, and create engaging content that actually converts into sales so that they can build a sustainable business over time.